gotta to try that trick a work...
Tachikomas are real jerks!!! They are great!!
Dubs, ruining anime's since always.
Yep, you're right. Because of this, the First-order logic is not applicable for setences that argue about their own value or, in this case at least, not directly.
I'm sorry, but i must do this comment. The one who dislike is probably the female android.
You think the IT guy come in like dammit.
Stupid robot lady. Its not even that much of a paradox. All it means is that *sometimes* the Tachikoma lies, and that was one of them. Its a false dichotomy, the assumption in the question that it can only always lie or always tell the truth.
I would have thought, actually, that a less sophisticated robot wouldn't have picked up on that implicit assumption and been able to answer relatively easily - more so than one with more advanced language comprehension anyway.
that isn't a paradox
This part had me laughing so hard that I was crying. I love the Tachikomas. XD
Oh man... since I coudn't handle the paradox, it means that I'm dumber than the android?
LOL, that's great.
They used the same one in Star Trek. With equally hilarious results.
That was both funny and mean.
lol you know thats not true i there are cases in which dubs are as good or better than the subs in fact despite the tachikomas all the dubs from this anime is really well done. so don't be a lil weeaboo fag are grow up
p.s. was that understandable or mabey i should subtitle it ?
Throughout the rest of the episode, you can actually see the android in the background still pondering on the paradox.
Ha ha ha!But then you say everything I say is a lie, except that, so I speak like 99,999% lies, not everything, cause atleast that one sentence (me being a liar) is true!
People kill themselves over paradoxes like this, and you say we don't get broken from the liar's paradox. God, this is making my head hurt.
I like the beatbox part: I-hum, I-hum, I-humm-I, I-I-I-hum!!!
What a douche-y thing to do
someone find GlaDos she needs to hear this.
on a similar note, i've always thought that the "this sentence is false/wrong" paradox is fundamentally wrong. the reason for this is that the sentence itself has no binary true or false value and therefor the it is logically wrong but not false. in other words, its not analog to "i only tell lies" but rather "that apple is false" which doenst make sense
this sentence is false
Lol Tachicomas are very smart. Ive been watching the show from the first episode, and they matures from basic ThinkTanks to having developed a ghost. Individulization has sure made the Tachicomas interesting.
i um i um i i, i um i um um i um
naaahhh that wolud be too easy :)
-1^x.... sometime positive... sometime negative... never ever ending cycle makes cpu's burn and humans laugh
I came up with my own theory on how they were able to do this, it is never shown in the series of course but this is how i rationalize it ... Since little paradoxes like this are likely to be quite common in day to day situations (not to mention people like us causing havoc for fun) my personal theory is that all robots have a little anti-paradox programming in place that allows them to dismiss paradox like questions and so avoid the logic loop (basically they are able to think "this is stupid and i will ignore it"). The Tachikoma however wirelessly jacked this poor gynoid and switched off her anti-paradox program leaving her vulnerable when they wanted to nick the device. Thats how i justify it in my head-cannon anyway.
These little guys are gonna take over the world, if they keep getting smarter
Liar paradox - spoken language's version of #define true false .
@f14tomcatfreak Unless they understand, using ones and zeros, that they are operating a world which is not logically consistent, and thus have to develop their own inconsistencies to match it. =P
I... umm... I, um, I, um I, I, I, um, um, um...
A liar who can never tell the truth is lying. That makes sense to me. A liar can tell the truth or a lie. Depends on what the liar wants to say. Simple.
Having their own ghosts has nothing to do with it. Being Smart Tanks, they need a large, almost human-like, intelligence. The gynoids (actual term for a female android) are only built with just enough AI to get what they are programed to do done. Thats why they are always behind desks or flying. They are not needed for combat so they have a very rudimentary logic and zero imagination. Imagination being neccesary (yea spelled wrong.) to understand paradoxes and not break.
Those things are completely insane in the most sane way.
Tachikomas are so fucking awesome!
Human brains function in a similar manner. A neuron's action potential is either completely triggered, or it is not triggered at all. There is no such thing as a partial action potential. I.e. a neuron is either on, or off - exactly the same as a transistor. Or in other words, we are nothing more than over-glorified Turing Machines with an insanely parallel architecture.
That is easy, give the "black box" a known variable, and see if you get a truth or lie back. The only thing that complicates it is if they can tell some truths or some lies. In this case though, all you need is to find out if they will lie.
meh. current computers can only understand on and off. thats only if your using capacitors for your memory banks though, and using the simple logic gates that are currently popular. quantum computing willl change that (if they can get past trying to work out that is 2 + 2...)
You'd think those AIs would have the self preservation coding to recognize a paradox and refuse to try to process it. But no, you gotta glitch 'em out.
It was understandable despite the fact you can't write english at all, yet what you say doesn't make sense so i don't feel like bothering answering you in anyway.
+Michael Adkins I disagree with the Turing machine not being capable of handling this problem, because there are more ways to handle a problem. If the solution to the problem isn't in the set of solvable problems, then the problem is unsolvable in the first place; so there's no limitation with the model.For instance, if you simply Google the question, the Google-bot will not get stuck in an infinite loop and will actually return the information needed to know that it's a dead end if you try to solve it. Wolfram alpha also won't crash if you feed it a trick question.From a technical pov, your agent can have multiple threads running and if one of the gets stuck in a loop it can interrupt the process without bringing the entire system down; try it a couple of times with different variables and then decide it can't solve the problem directly. It just comes down to adding one extra layer of abstraction really, no need to invent an entirely different model.The scene in the video is very unlikely to happen with such advanced programs. Although, it is possible that a more sophisticated system can hack another system using similar methods.
i for one welcome our tachikoma over lords.
LOL Folks that can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers..
Funny neat detail, the three "pupils" on the tachikomas form the shape of a therefore sign (∴), the symbol used in propositional logic to present a conclusion. Goddamnit, Ghost in the Shell reeks of philosophy...
@KenshinKunsinagi not really. It is stated in this season that the tachikoma's intelligence was somehow an accident related to their development of individuality (that's what the very section 9 doesn't know if it's a ghost or not). Motoko thought this was dangerous, and thus they sent them to the lab, after the tachikomas tried to pretend being more robotic. This individuality was partly Batou's fault for treating one unit as a special one, screwing with their sicronization.